Response to a Mormon at ReformationNation

A Mormon responded to a response I gave to another Mormon who was responding to a post by Pilgrim over at ReformationNation. Rather than fill up his combox with long posts, I decided to post my response to "Jake" here.

Jake, if you want to pick up a copy of The Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, you will find that teaching (that Jesus was conceived by literal, physical, sexual intercourse betweem God the Father and Mary) right there on page 7, as well as at the post Pilgrim linked to in his last response on this post. Now, about your other points. And I am not trying to bash you over the head by doing so, I am just trying to show you the truth.

First. You say that God "created Jesus." This is not true. Jesus has always been one with His Father. Genesis 1:1 says that "In the beginning, God (Elohim) created the heavens and the earth." Then listen to what it says in Isaiah 44:24--"Thus saith the LORD (Jehovah), your Redeemer, and He who formed you from the womb, 'I am the LORD, who makes ALL THINGS..." If Jehovah (Or as Mormons believe, Jesus) created "all things", then how could Elohim (God, Heavenly Father) have "created the heavens and the earth?" Also, Jesus is not our "spirit brother." Our faith in Him causes God to declare us His children (1st John 3:1), and we have been ADOPTED as children of God (Romans 8:15)--that is why He is "not ashamed to call us brethren" (Hebrews 2:12)--not because we were "spirit brothers" in a premortal life, but because we have been adopted as His brother.

Second. Lucifer is not our brother. We are human, he is an angel. These are two different species. Nehemiah 9:6 tells us that Jesus created the angels. But just because we are created by God, and the angels were created by God, that does not mean we are brothers. Would that not also mean that we would be brothers with birds and cows and trees? And before you say it--no, Lucifer did not exist (and neither did we)--in any physical or spiritual form--until he was created by Christ.

Third. Adam's sin was not "necessary for the propagation of the species." Genesis 1:28 says, "Then God (Elohim) blessed them, and God (Elohim) said to them, 'Be fruitful, and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it..." Question: Why would God tell them to do something without giving them the ability to do it? Answer: He didn't. When God created Adam and Eve, they knew how to "propagate", as it were, the species. Or do you think the animals that God created before He created man had to eat from that tree of knowledge of good and evil in order to procreate? Sin is sin is sin. God hates sin, and God does not change.

Fourth. In the early LDS church, polygamy was held to be necessary for exaltation.

• Brigham Young--"The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy. Others attain unto a glory and may even be permitted to come into the presence of the Father and the Son; but they cannot reign as kings in glory, because they had blessing offered unto them, and they refused to accept them." (8/19/1866, recorded in Journal of Discourses, vol. 11 p.269)
• Heber Kimball--" Some quietly listen to those who speak against the Lord's servants, against his anointed, against the plurality of wives, and against almost every principle that God has revealed. Such persons have half-a-dozen devils with them all the time. You might as well deny "Mormonism," and turn away from it, as to oppose the plurality of wives." (10/12/1856, recorded in JoD, vol. 5 p.203)
• Orson Pratt--"Now, after having said so much in relation to the reason why we practice polygamy, I want to say a few words in regard to the revelation on polygamy. God has told us Latter-day Saints that we shall be condemned if we do not enter into that principle; and yet I have heard now and then (I am very glad to say that only a few such instances have come under my notice,) a brother or a sister say, "I am a Latter-day Saints, but I do not believe in polygamy." Oh, what an absurd expression! what an absurd idea! A person might as well say, "I am a follower of the Lord Jesus Christ, but I do not believe in him." One is just as consistent as the other. Or a person might as well say, "I believe in Mormonism, and in the revelations given through Joseph Smith, but I am not a polygamist, and do not believe in polygamy." What an absurdity! If one portion of the doctrines of the Church is true, the whole of them are true. If the doctrine of polygamy, as revealed to the Latter-day Saints, is not true, I would not give a fig for all your other revelations that came through Joseph Smith the Prophet...The Lord has said, that those who reject this principle reject their salvation, they shall be damned, saith the Lord; those to whom I reveal this law and they do not receive it, shall be damned." (10/7/1874, recorded in JoD vol.17 pp.224-225)

Yet what does the Book of Mormon say about how many wives a man should have?

• Jacob 2:23-27--"…behold, thus saith the Lord: This people…seek to excuse themselves in committing whoredoms, because of the things which were written concerning David, and Solomon his son. Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord…Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none."

But what really worries me is your last statement. That "[a]nyone who honestly looks to God in his heart, be him Christian, Muslim, or Jew will find Him, and be saved." This is the problem with Mormonism. The only people that the LDS believes will be in Hell will be murderers, adulterers, and apostate Mormons. Even Muslims and Buddhists and atheists will enjoy some type of heaven according to the LDS church. This is wrong! Anyone who denies the Lord Jesus Christ, and any who believe in any other gods (Allah, Vishnu, etc.) will be condemned to Hell! And anyone who worships a false God, and a false Christ, is in danger of eternal damnation.